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mikey mikey

Bush Snr is dead. Good.

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Look at those phonies sucking up to Bush.

Edited by Gringo

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Your colleagues in the New Satesman

Julia Rampen

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has often been celebrated for his more moderate politics.

https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/12/george-hw-bush-dies-aged-94

and Theo Zenaou

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Since leaving the White House, and up to his death, Bush became increasingly beloved by Americans. 

Bush was a reminder of another way. One in which being American trumps being Democrat or Republican, and finding common ground is a sign of strength, not capitulation.

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/north-america/2018/12/last-old-world-evaluating-legacy-president-george-hw-bush

 

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What Poroshenko Gets Wrong - H.W. Bush And The Ukraine

Earlier this week Petro Poroshenko, the president of Ukraine, tried to provoke a war with Russia in attempt to stay in power by cancelling the upcoming elections.

Today he attempts to curry favor in the U.S. with remarks about the death of the former U.S. President George H.W. Bush.

Петро Порошенко @poroshenko - 10:59 utc - 1 Dec 2018
The former US President George W. Bush passed away. True leader and statesman. This man - the legend, under whose presidency the world saw the end of the Cold War. This man - the era, who then witnessed the restoration of Ukraine’s independence.

https://twitter.com/poroshenko/status/1068821913701679104

Poroshenko not only mourned the wrong President Bush, he also mislead about the historic record. Bush the first indeed "witnessed the restoration of Ukraine’s independence". But it happened against his strong advice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Kiev_speech

Bush had feared that the Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev was too weak, and that a dissolution of the Soviet Union would end in utter chaos. He traveled to Moscow and Kiev in an attempt to keep the union together. On August 1, 1991, months before a December referendum in which the Ukraine voted to withdraw from the Soviet Union, he visited Kiev and held a speech in the Ukrainian parliament.

The core sentences:

I come here to tell you: we support the struggle in this great country for democracy and economic reform. In Moscow, I outlined our approach. We will support those in the center and the republics who pursue freedom, democracy and economic liberty. Americans will not support those who seek independence in order to replace a far-off tyranny with a local despotism. They will not aid those who promote a suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred.


Bush told the members of the Verkhovna Rada not to seek independence, but to stay in a union with Russia and other soviet republics. Bush was advised by the realist Brent Scowcroft and it showed. The speech was drafted by Condoleeza Rice but Bush personally edited it to empathize his main point: Ukrainian independence was dangerous as it would lead to fascism.

[Bush would know this because he had been CIA director. The CIA worked with or controlled the Ukrainian fascists organizations throughout the cold war. (See "Collaborators: Allied Intelligence and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists" in Hitler's Shadows - Nazi War Criminals, U.S. Intelligence and the Cold War (pdf).)]

https://www.archives.gov/files/iwg/reports/hitlers-shadow.pdf

The (neo-)conservative NYT columnist William Safire called it the "Chicken Kiev" speech. Safire believed that Bush misjudged the issue. History proved that the neo-conservative view, which infests U.S. foreign policy up to today, is wrong, and that the realist view is right.

The people in the eastern half of the Ukraine are of Russian descent and culture, while the western half is inhabited by the Ruthenians of Galicia, and various other nationalities. The Galicians had proven to be prone to "suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred" when they allied with the invading Nazis and immediately started to massacred Poles, Jews and Russians. The Ukraine, which literally means 'the borderlands', is inherently unstable:

Western Ukraine was joined to Russia only during Stalin’s era. For centuries it was under the cultural, religious, and/or political control of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Poland. 
...
Western Ukraine is unified in its hostility toward Russians, whom they see as invaders and occupiers. During the last 20 years, as Ukraine tried to distance itself from its Soviet past and its ideology, it chose the nationalism of western Ukraine as the alternative. 
...
Easterners are angry that pro-Bandera banners, posters and graffiti are popping up all over Ukraine and with the rewriting of history in general, where violent nationalists who fought alongside the Nazis are treated as heroes while Russians, who suffered under Stalin no less than the Ukrainians, are denigrated.


All that happened after the Ukraine's independence, and especially after the U.S. controlled unconstitutional coup in 2014, proves that H.W. Bush was right. A Ukraine within a much larger Russian Federation would be less of a powder-keg, and much better off than it is today.

The outright fascism that is now promoted in Poroshenko's Kiev, with U.S. neo-conservative support and the help of U.S. special operation forces, will only pull the country further apart.

There is little else to say about H.W. Bush. He was a run of the mill war-criminal just like other U.S. presidents were. As CIA director he oversaw and covered up state sponsored terrorism. As president he attacked Iraq under false pretext. He ordered the complete destruction of Iraq's electricity network the consequences of which are still felt today. That was a war crime as all basic infrastructure is protected under the Geneva Conventions. He further destroyed the country with punitive sanctions that killed half a million Iraqi children.

Besides that he fathered some mediocre sons.

Good Riddance.

 

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/12/what-poroshenko-gets-wrong-hw-bush-and-the-ukraine.html

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The Guardian’s Bush obituary plumbs new depths of sycophantic hypocrisy

The strong man with the dagger is followed by the weak man with the sponge.” Lord Acton

George Herbert Walker Bush died on Saturday. He was 94 years old. Thanks to decisions he made throughout his career, thousands – perhaps millions – of people never got near 94. He invaded Iraq in 1991, instituted sanctions that destroyed the country. He pardoned those involved in the Iran-Contra affair and was head of the CIA when Operation Condor launched the military coup in Argentina in 1976.

None of that makes it into The Guardian‘s obituary, of course.

Instead, Simon Tisdall – a mindless servant to the status quo, always happy to weave invective about our designated enemies – treats us to paragraph after paragraph of inane anecdotes.

Good old Georgie once gave him a lift in Air Force One.

Barbara gave him useful advice about raising Springer Spaniels.

The following words and phrases are not found anywhere in this article: CIA, Iraq, Iran-Contra, Argentinian coup, Iran Air Flight 655, NAZI, Panama.

Rather, Tisdall refers Bush’s term as “before the era of fake news”. Which makes him either a complete a liar or profoundly under-qualified to write on the subject – as the Bush-era spawned the original fake news: The Nayirah testimony. A pack of lies told before the Senate, and used to justify a war in the middle-east.

A Bush family tradition.

Tisdall talks of Bush’s family – “he enjoyed a privileged upbringing in a monied east coast family” – but doesn’t say that his father, Prescott Bush, was a known Nazi sympathiser and was even implicated in an alleged plot to overthrow the government of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Bush started two wars as President. Planned and enabled countless crimes as director of the CIA. pardoned all those implicated in the Iran-Contra affair. Refused to apologise when the US Navy “accidentally” shot down an Iranian airliner, killing over 200 civilians, including 60 children.

He was the original neocon – his administration brought us Cheney and Powell and Rumsfeld. Gave birth to the ideology that stage-managed 9/11, launched the “War on Terror”, and cut a blood-stained swath across North Africa and the Middle East.

We don’t hear about that.

What we DO hear about is Bush’s “deep sense of public duty and service” and that “Bush was a patriot who did not need cheap slogans to express his belief in enduring American greatness”. No space is given over to analysis, to examine the fact that “belief in enduring American greatness” is quasi-fascism, and responsible for more violent deaths this century than any other cause you can name.

In hundreds of words, a notionally left-wing paper has nothing but praise for a highly unpopular right-wing president. No space is given over even to the gentlest of rebukes.

The whole article is an exercise in talking without saying anything. Pleasantries replacing truth. Platitudes where facts should be. A nothing burger, with a void on the side and an extra order of beige.

It’s an obituary of Harold Shipman that eschews murder talk and rhapsodises about his love of gardening.

A eulogy to Pinochet that praises his economic reforms but neglects all the soccer stadiums full of corpses.

An epitaph to Hitler that focuses, not on his “controversial political career”, but on his painting and his vegetarianism.

Did you know Genghis Khan once lent me a pencil? He was a swell guy. The world will miss him.

We’re no longer supposed to examine the lives, characters or morals of our leaders. Only “honour their memory” and be “grateful for their service”. History is presented to us, not as a series of choices made by people in power, but as a collection of inevitabilities. Consequences are tragic but unavoidable. Like long-dead family squabbles – To dwell on them is unseemly, and to assign blame unfair.

Just as with John McCain, apologism and revisionism are sold to us as manners and good taste. Attempts to redress the balance and tell the truth are met with stern glares and declarations that it is “too soon”.

It’s never “too soon” to tell the truth.

John McCain was a dangerous war-mongering lunatic. George Bush Sr was a sociopath from a family of corrupt sociopaths. The world would be a far better, and much safer place if just one major newspaper was willing to say that.

Really, there are two obituaries to write here:

First – George HW Bush, corrupt patriarch of an old and malign family, passing out of this world to face whatever eternal punishment (hopefully) awaits those who sell their immortal soul in exchange for a brief taste of power.

Second – The Guardian, perhaps a decent newspaper once-upon-a-time, now a dried out husk. A zombified slave to the state, mindless and brainless and lifeless. No questions, no reservations, no hesitation. Obediently licking up the mess their masters leave behind.

It’s sickening.

 

https://off-guardian.org/2018/12/03/the-guardians-bush-obituary-plumbs-new-depths-of-sycophantic-hypocrisy/

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A lot of people fail to mention how Bush failed to act during the AIDs crisis until over 100,000 were dead.

He also continued anti LGBT legislation and actions.

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Any president who managed to go seventy two hours without shitting himself and trying to eat it looks like Lincoln now.

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MSNBC is srsly covering the motherfucking train carrying his corpse. It’s just live footage of a train. That’s the news today. Footage of a train.

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On 12/3/2018 at 9:51 PM, Gringo said:

Any president who managed to go seventy two hours without shitting himself and trying to eat it looks like Lincoln now.

 

Nah. Not even in the tiniest slightest itsyest, joke-joke ha-ha way. Not even a little. Not even funny.

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Like, how do you follow Shiloh’s post with that? 

 

Not trying to be harsh on you, but come on, man. 

Edited by CBQ

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There is a bit of "remember what it was like" and a bit of the usual rose colored nil nisi.  Overall I don't see a need to condemn every dead president as a war criminal and demon.  Nor do I see a need to make them saints.  Just have a short funeral and bury them. 

 

On 12/3/2018 at 10:13 AM, Shiloh said:

A lot of people fail to mention how Bush failed to act during the AIDs crisis until over 100,000 were dead.

He also continued anti LGBT legislation and actions.

I've heard this reported but without any citations.  From what I can see he passed the Ryan act and improved the situation from Reagan's era.  Hardly enough, but more than "failed to act."  It's true he didn't create DADT, but DADT was shit and DOMA was much worse than inaction.  He continued the status quo with some improvements he was forced to make.  Hardly a ringing legacy, but I'm seeing memes about how he slashed AID's funding.  Does this have support?

Edited by Cosmoline

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1 hour ago, CBQ said:

Like, how do you follow Shiloh’s post with that? 

 

Not trying to be harsh on you, but come on, man. 

I wasn't joking. I mean I didn't mean it sincerely. But this is where we are. The wars. The deaths. The criminality. The ineptitude. It all goes under the rug because of the nostalgia among the political commentariat for a time when they could go their entire lives without being accountable for their shitty views on social media.

George Bush takes his place among the only good Republicans and nobody who matters will miss him and his own party's president was calling him a prick just a few weeks ago.

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It was GHWB's transgressions that got me to campaign for Clinton in '92.  I'll never forgive him... no revisionism can wipe that away.

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21 hours ago, CBQ said:

 

Nah. Not even in the tiniest slightest itsyest, joke-joke ha-ha way. Not even a little. Not even funny.

This.

Plus I think they’re doing it to spite Trump a little bit.

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1 hour ago, Nehemiah Scudder said:

This.

Plus I think they’re doing it to spite Trump a little bit.

Many of the accolades are digs at Trump. People too cowardly to call out Trump are doing it indirectly. It also drives Trump crazy when he's ignored.

Bush set aside his values as Reagan's VP. He was prochoice, wasn't notably antiLGBT but aligning with evangelicals meant becoming more RW. 

He did some positives like supporting the reunification of Germany. But when the Soviet Union fell the USA lost an opportunity to assist them and now Russia's fallen back into authoritarianism. 

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Anything bad for Trump is good for ....well...anything. If that means revisionist white-washing of the molesting war-criminal father of Dubya, then I guess the enemy of my enemy ....er. had a plane load of Iranian civilians shot down.

excuse me while I puke

hashtag me too unless it bothers Trump.

Edited by mikey mikey

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1 hour ago, mikey mikey said:

Anything bad for Trump is good for ....well...anything. If that means revisionist white-washing of the molesting war-criminal father of Dubya, then I guess the enemy of my enemy ....er. had a plane load of Iranian civilians shot down.

 

Bush Sr. is dead.  Who cares.  Whether we condemn or praise him means nothing.  Trump is very much alive, and if we can embarrass and distract him by making him look stupid or insulting him, that's good.  It means something.  Trump is a monster.  Those who follow him are monsters.  Whether or not you think Bush I was a monster, the priority is getting rid of the monster in power. 

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Ok... Cosmo approves of talking nice about Bush Sr. to rankle Trump.   That’s one.

But, I gotta throw out, that if we (as a nation) cared more about policy than people, we wouldn’t be in this damn spot to begin with.

I don’t care if he was a nice guy, who occasionally non consensually patted womens’ bottoms from his wheelchair with his monster face.  I care about his policies as President, more.

Edited by Nehemiah Scudder

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1 hour ago, Cosmoline said:

Bush Sr. is dead.  Who cares.  Whether we condemn or praise him means nothing.  Trump is very much alive, and if we can embarrass and distract him by making him look stupid or insulting him, that's good.  It means something.  Trump is a monster.  Those who follow him are monsters.  Whether or not you think Bush I was a monster, the priority is getting rid of the monster in power. 

It does mean something if we condemn or praise him. When we wipe the slate clean for someone's deaths, we hinder any efforts in the present and future to remedy the harm they've caused. People are already starting to forget what the AIDS crisis was like, or how government officials laughed while people died, or what it was like for people to lose so many people, so fast. If we praise Bush, we have to condone or forget how easily he let people die, and that means something. 

It also means something that you can draw a direct line to him to crack cocaine, the engineering of that crisis at the hands of the CIA, his handling of the drug war, and how that related to mass incarceration. 

A lot of the things we condemn Trump for are things that were considered by the predominately white & straight & cis & upper middle class "mainstream" to be less offensive during Bush's time. How do we condemn Trump for racism, while praising someone who ran one of history's most notorious racist campaign ads? How can we prevent future Trumps, while praising one of the presidents who made it possible for someone like him to financially thrive despite being a horrible con man? 

Moreover, I promise you we don't need extra material to make Trump look stupid or insult him. As long as both of us live, neither one of us will ever run out of things that embarrass or distract Trump. 

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1 hour ago, Nehemiah Scudder said:

 

But, I gotta throw out, that if we (as a nation) cared more about policy than people, we wouldn’t be in this damn spot to begin with.

 

Super true

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